17 year old youth pulls for €3-4-5-6m, why?
In the past, before the days on players were actually counted, we always saw a significant increase in transfer prices on 17 year old players. This was often referred to as ’sick’ or met with general criticism throughout the community. Since then we’ve had some developments in the game. Players are now ageing in days, meaning that the ’sick’ prices today often comes from 17.0-5 (the 0-5 symbolizing the number of days the player is. E.g. 17.1 is a player that is 17 years and 1 day old) old youth pulls.
In the beginning of this revolutionizing introduction of the days, which not only would have an effect on the transfer market but also training and other factors, the community reacted with a surprisingly (to yours truly at least) positive reaction. It seemed to everyones best knowledge, that this would reduce the sometimes ridiculously high prices for a fresh youth pull. It’s also important to keep in mind that although high prices affect more or less all of the really young players, and always has - this especially goes for solid or excellent youth pulls which are multi-skilled, e.g. a 17.1 excellent playmaker/solid passing type of youth.
To many new managers in Hattrick today, the prices on 17 year old players is somewhat a mystery. Sometimes one might have a bid for a couple of hundered thousands, while others are well above the three million euro line. This is as I mentioned due to the number of days the player in question is. Not only are managers hoping to get a future star for their team, but the younger the player, the higher the skill (and multi-skill) equals higher chances of opening the eyes of the U20 National Team coach as well as the prospect of multi-skill training. As a younger player equals faster training, this means that the possibility of training the player in a number of skills before he’s ‘obsolete’ in the training ground is dramatically increased.
In the past managers that bought these super-youths often argued their case with comments such as “I’ll get the money back when he’s multi-skilled and still young” or “I’ll get the money back with interest when he’s high in one skill and still trainable in another!”, but unfortunately these types of explanations became somewhat shredded when the transfer comparison tool within the game was introduced. Why? you might ask yourself at this point; well, it’s as simple as: when there is no data available, we can’t make rational decisions. Even more simplified, this means that if we’re not sure of what the value of the player is, or if we can’t launch into a full scale investigation or justify the price, we’re more likely not to buy the player.
However, there are of course exceptions. My strategy in buying players nowadays includes a more team than economic approach. It might be due to the fact that I have money to back my decisions, but I’d like to take the “he’s perfect for my team” approach, and then see where the pricetag will land. Plus, managers that have the money to spend, the long-term view of training and backing from scouts of the specific National Team - are of course more likely to spend on super-youths.
So where was I going. After studying the influence from the introduction of days on super-youth prices I have very little data. None which would be representable or even remotely interesting to this discussion, however, common sense tells me a couple of things:
- The distribution between money and where it’s spent within the game have radically changed. In the past managers would spend in the beginning of each season; buying new, young, freshly drawn 17 year old youth prospects for overprices to train. The money to do so would come from selling players at the end of each season. Supply and demand have never been easier explained: the supply of players at the end of each season would explode, causing a drop in transfer prices from week 14 and onwards while the complete opposite (high demand and low supply) would occur during weeks 0-2 of a season. Of course, with players ageing at the same time, this was the most logical thing to do, sell before the age, and buy when the player is as young as possible. Makes sense.
- Today, the distribution is spread out throughout the whole season. A super-youth can be pulled any day and any week of a season, which of course means that managers have to be on their toes and lookout 24/7.
- Prices on 17.0-1 is still utterly ’sick’. With more money in the game in general to fight the previous recession, it’s probably even worse than before.
As I’ve lost the point I was trying to make a long time ago (sorry about that), I’m hoping that this at least will help the people wondering about the super-youth overprices. My apologies also for the term “super-youth(s)”, this is a direct translation of the word “superjunis” used by all of the Swedish managers for these type of players.
Do you think it makes sense to pay above three million euros for a 17 year old? Why? Or perhaps why not?
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After training 30% stamina for a long time I can say the following.
Level 8 stamina can be maintained until the ...
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Comment by DogNatural on 30 July 2008:
You raise some interesting points - a thought provoking article!
One thing which you haven’t touched on is the introduction of the YA around the same time of the age changes. If the old ‘lottery’ Youth Squad system was used by everyone then there would be a more even spread of youth pull ages than now. I’m not sure exactly how this would effect the prices of the youngest 17 year olds (I’m not an economist!) but I’m sure it would have some effect.
There was something else I was going to say… I’ll need to read your article again when I’ve had a coffee and I’m fully awake!
Comment by Arthur on 3 August 2008:
hey be a man and do the right thing
Comment by real madriesta on 3 August 2008:
Your article explained a situation that is well known to all of us for the last 1 and a half seasons.
Prices went rapidly for the last 1.5 seasons and most of the times it seems there is no sense when 2 similar 17 year old (same age same skills same everything)would sell for different prices (By saying different I really mean DIFFERENT)
I for the other hand buy players for pure “money trade” I cant afford my self at the moment buying what I really need, but by doing what Im doing now- I hope that very soon I could.
If they worth it or not the answer is very simple- If some one is paying for it- Yes it does!
Comment by Koen on 17 August 2008:
I totally agree with real madriesta. Especially the last sentence. Why make a big fuzz about it if “we” (the people not paying 3 million for 17 year old players) can play the market with our own 17 year old super players?
My english aint that good, or not in writing ;). So i hope you guys understand.
Comment by DaRuler on 15 September 2008:
In my opinion if you buy a decent 17 yo and train him with first team in mind its worth the money but paying millions for a player with a few or a week extra to train is stupid.
Comment by FlevoTJ-AAF on 19 September 2008:
I’ve got a problem. For 17-year old players, you can ask what you want and peaple can pay what they want. I think HT will accept this.
(Rafael van der Vaart: price according to his skills:
My problem (not really a problem) is that I’ve got allmost all real Ajaxplayers, with real Ajaxnames, from now and the past. There are a lot of managers who want those players. I’m one of them, but my highest goal in HT is to create 2 teams (A- en B) with only real Ajaxplayers. I’m the only one who als want them to play on the original position. So it’s very difficul;t to find the right player on the right position. When I find one, people want to have the highest price. That’s a big problem. HT always says: “You are not allowed to pay just for a name”. When I sell one of my players, when they are too old (skills/stats are falling), or when I’ve got a really good offer, HT will take all the money above the normal price, as if it’s a normal player . . .
€ 25.000 (says HT), a manager from Hamburger SV wants to give me 500K and after a little bidwar the price I get was 566K. HT took/ stole 500K). When I want to buy Jari Litmanen (normal price 100K), people bought him for 1,87M€ and later 2M€!!!!). When I tell this to the GM’s, I never got an answer.
I think that’s very onfair and also not modern. HT says that it’s unfair, because not every manager can pay those high prices . . .
I think it’s a very big bug, when you’r able to pay thos high prices and HT forbit it. Change the program: a normal and fair price is e.g. 100K, then you can bett at the most 150% of that price. And the 1st who pay that price, got the player. I think the answer of HT will be: that’s unfair, not every manager is able to bett on that player, at that time. I think, when I invest more time in HT, then another manager, it’s my decission. When will HT punish me for that?
The fact that I’ve got those players (in which I invest a lot of time to search, and scouting), this is for me the topping (whipcream) on this game.
I think, my team and my players are known all over the world. The talk about my players in a lot of forums.
Comment by WoolyBully65 on 28 November 2008:
The obvious reply to this from a neutral view is that mates can get together and arrange to swap money/do a bit of “money laundering” (ie the rich manager buys a player at an inflated price from a poor manager - and the poor manager is suddenly not so poor.) That’s not in the spirit of the game. The name of the players is just a side issue. The principle of HT I think must be that the transfer market is as fair as possible.
Comment by darian on 9 December 2008:
To FlevoTJ-AAF
Sucks for you my friend. I think it’s really original what you’re doing. Plus I just learned something, I never actually thought why some transfers are so ridiculous.
I think HT has been unfair to you in some way for those transfers and allowing many others to sell the prices they sell.
I’d like to see your team jeje, could you reply to me or something
If so you could also pm me in hattrick to “darian_mata” my username
Thanks, and hope you get repaid sometime for being honest
I am
Comment by P.J. on 17 December 2008:
I wish I could pull someone from my Youth Acadamy that was worth 3 mill. I think the most i’ve got is about 350K!!! lol
Comment by moonburn on 26 January 2009:
my question is not about the profits one can take i have 3 of those with good (direct translation from portuguese it´s the thing right before excelent) on 2 skills and inadequate on other important subjects such as defence
1 is a forward with the passing/assistance caracteristics both good
(with technique)
the other is a midfielder with the wing caracteristic of good and also good in creativity good resistance and inadequate defence
the 3rd probably is 18 already with strenght excelent in defence and penaltykicks i belive
as for the economic point of view i never sell any of my defenders bellow 1 million since i train mostly defence and some of them are over fenomenal before they reach 19 so not a big deal i make more then enough cash from the stadium so i only sell when i need to buy a trully amazing player for another position
what i want to know is how do we send such players to be scouted by the u-20 teams ?
i would apreciate if someone would send me a reply ingame since i only came here cause ht is offline
best regards moonburn
Comment by Piemaster on 24 February 2009:
Prices on youth pulls are still very eratic. A while ago I pulled a youth player at 17 who had Excellent Winger but horrible (and I mean horrible) secondaries. I listed him for £60,000 and got no bids. I relisted him for £50,000 and he sold for £225,000. I guess sometimes it just depends who’s online at the time of the deadline.
Comment by Dre-13 on 1 March 2009:
Hey guys,
Just wanted to point out one thing. Say we buy a 3M 17.2 player, train him a full season of PM for example. At the end, asuming no injuries took place, he’d be Outstanding with solid passing ans maybe some passable stamina.
From what I’ve seen on the trasfer market, it’s hard to sell such a player with more than 3M. There’s always the uncertainty with these players, as there aren’t many to make a thorough judgement, but it looks unlikely to succeede in making a proffit.
The only way imo would be to have an excellent coach and train them until they are recruited by the U-20NT. The added logo of the NT boosts the prices, it’s “sure value”.
Bottom line - great article, I’m glad I found this site.
Dre-13, manager of Kinslayer F.C.
Comment by Download on 7 September 2009:
Hey guys,
Just wanted to point out one thing. Say we buy a 3M 17.2 player, train him a full season of PM for example. At the end, asuming no injuries took place, he’d be Outstanding with solid passing ans maybe some passable stamina.
From what I’ve seen on the trasfer market, it’s hard to sell such a player with more than 3M. There’s always the uncertainty with these players, as there aren’t many to make a thorough judgement, but it looks unlikely to succeede in making a proffit.
The only way imo would be to have an excellent coach and train them until they are recruited by the U-20NT. The added logo of the NT boosts the prices, it’s “sure value”.
Bottom line - great article, I’m glad I found this site.
Dre-13, manager of Kinslayer F.C.